an interview with Octane AI.
When your customers can shop virtually anywhere, how do you deliver an experience that will keep them coming back again and again? One word: personalization. No two customers are the same, and your customers want to be recognized as a unique individual.
This week on the podcast we’re talking all things personalization: what it is, how to collect personalization data, and how to use that data across your website and marketing strategies.
Matt Schlicht is the CEO and Co-Founder of Octane AI, the buyer persona marketing platform for the fastest growing brands on Shopify. Matt is the creator of Chatbots Magazine, the #1 bots and AI publication in the world with over 750,000 readers a year. He is also a TikTok expert with over 800k TikTok followers and the creator of TikTok newsletter The For You Page. Previously, with a focus on digital product design, Matt pioneered one-to-many online live video at Ustream (acquired by IBM), went through YCombinator, and helped grow rapper Lil Wayne from 1 to 30 million fans online. Matt is one of the few people to have been on Forbes 30 Under 30 twice.
Ben Parr is President and Co-Founder of Octane AI, the all-in-one buyer profile marketing suite for ecommerce. Octane AI powers engaging quizzes, data collection, and personalized Messenger and SMS automation. Ben is the author of "Captivology: The Science of Capturing People's Attention" and a board director of the non-profit Samasource. Previously, Ben was the Co-Editor of Mashable, a columnist for CNET, and a venture capitalist. He has sat on the advisor boards of Lufthansa Airlines and various startups. He is a member of the Forbes 30 Under 30.
Octane AI enables fast-growing D2C brands to increase revenue and collect data from the marketing channels your customers use.
Build high-converting website experiences with the most advanced onsite promotion suite on the market.
Clocked in a time clock for Shopify.
With Clockedin your team members can easily clock in and out of their shifts from anywhere. You can manage your team's hours as they work remotely with an intuitive interface that can be used from desktop, tablet, or mobile.
- [03:41] What is personalization?
- [05:54] What is a buyer persona?
- [06:41] How to collect personalization data
- [08:54] Introduction to Klaviyo
- [10:20] Motherly’s unique example of personalization
- [12:10] What to do with personalization data
- [15:46] Introduction to Matt and Ben
- [21:00] Introduction to Octane AI
- [27:07] What is the shoppable quiz?
- [39:50] How does the shoppable quiz increase your conversion rate?
- [45:18] A walkthrough of the quiz creation process
- [54:06] Store shoutout: Rooted.nyc
- [55:20] Store shoutout: Spongelle
- [55:41] Store shoutout: Mastin Labs
- [56:00] Store shoutout: Doe Lashes
- [56:19] Store shoutout: Misen
- [57:06] Store shoutout: Something Navy
- [57:52] Where to find Matt and Ben on the internet
- Customer Fields app
- Forbes Article
- Doe Lashes
- BeautyBio Case Study
- Bariatric Fusion
- Mastin Labs
- Something Navy
- Octane AI
- Ben’s Twitter
- Ben’s Instagram
- Ben’s Facebook
- Ben’s TikTok
- Ben’s LinkedIn
- Matt’s Twitter
- Matt’s TikTok
When your customers can shop virtually anywhere, how do you deliver an experience that will keep them coming back again and again, one word, personalization. No two customers are the same and your customers wants to be recognized as a unique individual. This week on the podcast, we're talking all things personalization. What it is, how to collect personalization data, and how do you use that data across your website and marketing strategies? Let's dig in.
Welcome to Commerce Tea, a podcast to help you succeed on Shopify. I'm Rhian.
And I'm Kelly. Grab a mug and join us as we talk about all things commerce.
Hey Kelly, how can I get to know my customers better?
By using Octane AI's new Shoppable Quiz you can easily create beautiful quizzes to learn more about your customers and help them find products you know they'll love.
What kind of results can I expect from building a quiz?
You'll see increases in your conversions and average order value, growth in your marketing lists, and higher engagement on your marketing campaigns by using the personalization data you're collecting. And the results are profound. Brands on Shopify with a Shoppable Quiz have collected 16 times more emails and discovered segments of customers for the 75% higher AOV than the average customer.
That's so rad.
Yeah. Plus Octane AI passes the quiz responses into the marketing tools you already use, like Klaviyo and Privy. You'll also get to use this personalization data with Octane AI's powerful Facebook Messenger and SMS automations.
Where can I learn more?
Visit octaneai.com/quiz to learn more and request an invite for early access. Good morning Rhian.
Good morning, Kelly. How are you today?
I am great. How are you?
I'm doing well. I'm actually drinking... I've got great news. I am drinking iced green tea right now.
I am so proud of you.
Thank you. I love it. I love it very much.
I am drinking water because I already drank my coffee.
Well, I had two coffees this morning and then I was like, do I go for a third? But the rule is, Rhian can only drink two cups of coffee.
Two and through.
... Go sideways. Two and through.
Last night, Daniel and I decided to have a cup of coffee at like 9:00 PM. And I've been drinking coffee for a very long time. And also I've been around coffee drinkers for a very long time. I'm Hispanic so I'm used to drinking coffee in the evenings, like post dinner. And I finished my cup of coffee and then I immediately go to bed and Daniel's just like wild.
That'd be me. I'd be like, "Hey, what are we doing?" You're like, "Rhian, it's 3:00 AM." But today I actually did wake up at 4:00 AM because of the smoke from the fires. I'm out here in Southern California, near the El Dorado Fire. And I just want to say to all of our listeners who are impacted by the fires that we love you and we're sending you good vibes and we hope you're safe. Please stay safe. Please stay safe.
Take care of yourself.
Take care of yourself.
Absolutely. Not to be a downer, but just want to talk about the-
That's kind of weird right now.
Very obvious situation going on right now.
Okay. So we're talking about personalization today. What is personalization?
So in terms of eCommerce personalization goes beyond just knowing your customer's name. You get that information when they create an account or they check out, you get their first name and last name. We're talking about-
Pause for one second. Kelly, please tell everybody what you did on LinkedIn and why it matters. There is just a personalization fail.
Yeah. It is a personalization fail. So I read a post on LinkedIn that had somebody basically added an emoji at the beginning of their name on LinkedIn. And you could tell who's using an automation tool because when it says your name, like, "Hi, first name." It'll say, "Hi, emoji, first name."
So I decided to try it on myself and it took less than 24 hours to receive my first connection request that says, "Hi, Pier, emoji Kelly." So I posted about it on Twitter. I took screenshots of that. And shout out to Pier. I apologize for making your name go viral as the guy in the screenshot who used an automation tool. Because that tweet went viral but then people took that information from Twitter and posted it out back on LinkedIn and that went viral. So everyone knows that Pier emoji Kelly, and Pier who uses an automation tool.
Poor Pier. I just wanted to touch on that because that is a personalization fail. And it is more than just knowing your customer's name.
Exactly. You want to know who are your customers? Who are they? What are they interested in? What are they looking at? What are they buying? They want to know, like they're a real person with real interests, as opposed to just another number in your system.
Absolutely. And even customer personas are crucial to start building out the gate.
How does one go about building a customer persona and why does it matter?
So this starts with your research into who you expect your customers to be, especially when you're first starting out your brand. If you did not listen to building an inclusive brand episode with Marnie Konski, she goes into detail on how she researched her product and who was going to be the best fit for selling to and marketing to.
So building out a customer persona is basically writing a story about if you were the customer, who are you? How old are you? But maybe is your like socioeconomic status? What kind of things are you interested in? Where else are you shopping?
So you're collecting all this information, kind of get into the mind of the customer and know how to market to them, whether it's on your website or via email or on social media, wherever you might be.
What's the best way about collecting that information?
So the best way is not to assume that's the worst way is to assume who your customers are.
So lets get that out of the way, don't do that.
So the best way is to ask for it. It's that simple. Ask your customers who are you and what do you like? So I have two recommendations here. The first one is the customer fields app in the Shopify app store. We'll link to it in the show notes.
What this does is lets you add additional personalization questions, both to the registration form and to the customer account page so that when your customer goes into their, my account page, they can add additional details about themselves, their birthday, maybe their favorite color. I don't know, just some random things whatever's most relevant to how you're going to be marketing to your audience. The second one, which I'm not going to go into detail right now is a Shoppable Quiz. And these whole second, I don't know, two thirds of this episode is talking to two of the co-founders from Octane AI about this Shoppable Quiz that they built and I am obsessed with it. And so I'm not going to spoil anything, but please continue to listen for that information.
For all the details.
All the details. Yes. So you can ask for it just talk to your customers. You can also collect this information just in the general buyer journey. So if you're using Klaviyo for example, for your email marketing you could add on truckers to your site to track when a customer views a product, when they add it to their cart, and of course when they place an order, what was actually in that order that they placed.
Now, your customers have to already give you their email address in order for this information to be tracked. So it's not like you're just going to magically receive all this information about customers when you don't know what they're actually like, you don't know who they are.
Can I stop you for a second and ask you question about Klaviyo? We talk about Klaviyo a lot, but I think one thing we haven't talked about is why they are your email marketing platform of choice and it's something we should probably address.
That's a good question.
Yeah. So I love Klaviyo because it was built for eCommerce. It's a marketing platform because they also do SMS specifically for eCommerce brands. So there are a lot of email marketing companies out there that compete with Klaviyo, but I love Klaviyo's segmentation. I love their flows and automations and I love the data science behind everything that they're doing so they can do like predicted next purchase and predicted next purchase value and things like that. That's like really smart that they basically just like collected all this data from all of their customers being the merchants, analyze that buyer behavior to be able to create the AI behind when you can predict that next purchase. So I love Klaviyo. I love their customer support. I love that it's a super easy email platform to use. I love that you can get super customizable with it as well.
Thank you for talking about it. I know we need to have a whole episode just about emails, marketing, Klaviyo, how to use it because-
I think we should probably get somebody from Klaviyo on because I can talk all day about it, but I think it'd be good to also talk to somebody who's a little bit of an expert in that area.
I totally agree. I totally agree. So I know of another company that does a customer personas exceptionally well and that's Motherly, but you're more familiar with them. Can you talk to me about them.
Yeah. So full disclosure, Motherly is my client and that is why I know all about it.
That's why am like, and Kelly over to you.
So Motherly uses Klaviyo for their email marketing. And what we did was on their account page we added a bunch of form fields. So we're talking about new moms soon to be moms. And those are the kinds of emails that are being sent out like, "Oh, you are 16 weeks pregnant. Here's what to expect." That kind of thing. So what we did was we captured the due date for the mom. We captured the birth dates for the children and we pass that information over into Klaviyo. So we can segment the audience and be able to send those very targeted emails about what to expect based on where you are in your pregnancy. We also collect information more about the mom as well. So what their work situation is, if they're a stay at home mom, if they have more kids, whatever it might be.
So basically all this data gets sent over to Klaviyo and you get a really unique, really personalized experience for the customers. And it's kind of fun, like building all of this out because I don't have kids. And so I'm coming up with names and all kinds of things and seeing if I can break the form fields, because that's my job. And so I'm really excited to announce that I'm having a kid named Batman next month. The gender is dog because I had to validate that form field as well.
I mean, Kelly, if you play your cards right, I might ship you a teenager at the end of the semester.
You keep threatening me with a child, a teenager.
A teen girl upon you. No, I'm just kidding, she's not that bad.
I love that.
Okay. Once we have all of that information we have all of this customer persona info. What do we do with it?
So the first thing I would do is, again, if you're using an email marketing platform that allows for customization, make sure you're passing this data through. So you can start segmenting your audience for your email marketing for your Facebook ads, wherever you're going to be using that data.
Second, I think one really cool thing that you could do is tag your customers with certain key words that align with your personalization data. For example, if you had like gender, you can say male, female, non-binary, however you want to tag the customer. And then you can actually change out the content on the website based on the customer's tag.
So it is a very unique experience for that particular customer based on those kinds of tags. You can also, I think for example, if you're often selling to customers who are buying things as gifts, and you can pick up these items are actually gifts for other people, you can add in a little section of your website that says, why don't you get something for yourself as well? Why don't you treat yourself?
Oh, I like that.
So you'd have so much fun with this. And I think most importantly recommend products specific to their interests. I probably should have opened with that one, but obviously the end goal here is to get people to buy more things from your store. So put the products in front of them that they're most likely to buy.
I love that idea, that's phenomenal and so important. And with that let's interview Matt and Ben.
Let's do it.
Kelly, I'm going to be really honest. I need to save time and make my marketing workflow more efficient. I don't want to continue to dump money into ads if they're not converting. Do you have any suggestions?
As a matter of fact I do, with Justuno you can capture segment and re-target your website visitors then personalize their shopping experience. Why spend hours on writing email copy when you're not customizing the buyer journey?
Okay. I'm in, but does Justuno work with my marketing tools?
Yes. Justuno integrates with email tools like Klaviyo and Omnisend as well as SMS providers, such as Postscript and SMSBump. You could even capture both email and phone in the same pop-up. I recommend the Justuno plus plan. It gives you access to their AI component which creates smart product recommendations based on things like most purchased and most viewed. You also get access to a Justuno strategists to assist with the game plan and technical support.
Where can I learn more?
Go to justuno.com/tea to sign up and get 20% off your plan for the first year. Again, that's J-U-S-T-U-N-O.com/T-E-A.
Today we're chatting with Matt Schlicht and Ben Parr, two of the co-founders of Octane AI. Octane AI powers engaging quizzes, data collection, and personalized messenger and SMS automation. Hi, you all, how's it going?
I have also feeling woo.
I'll round that out with a woo from over here as well. Why don't you tell us about yourselves, Matt, why don't you go first?
Yeah, so I grew up in Southern California in Orange County. I didn't have a computer until I was 12 and when I got one, I had dial up internet and I was like, wow, the internet is crazy. And from that point onward, I couldn't focus on anything except figuring out how to set up a business online. And I think I also realized that there were 1000 people who worked at Google and I was like, "Well, how is this even possible?" And so after I graduated high school, I actually moved to Silicon Valley when I was 19. And instead of going to college, I joined a company called Ustream, which back in like 2007 was one of the companies pioneering online live video, which now is kind of ubiquitous and it's in every app.
And I ended up kind of somehow being able to take over a product and I led product there for almost four years. They ended up getting acquired by IBM for over a hundred million dollars. And then since then I've just been... I worked with Lil Wayne for a couple of years. We got to Guinness Book of World Record, taught myself to code, did some stuff in Bitcoin.
And then in 2015, in 2016, I got really, really interested in messaging apps and what was happening with WeChat in China and figuring out how can we help businesses in the United States and the rest of the world automate conversations with their customers. And we can get into this, but that's what led to the creation of Octane AI and then Ben Parr. I've known Ben for, I don't know, we met online originally as most people do at some point. And I think originally we were very confrontational and didn't like each other at all, but we worked together and it's gone really amazing. And I think we've known each other for well over a decade now.
Let's be clear. Ben I met on a secret internet forum for sharing secret things founded by a early person at a very, very big and prominent tech company. And Matt and I were trying to build competing blogs at the time.
No, no, no, no, that's a bad way to describe it. Ben was creating a bad blog and I was creating some good blog.
Mine had more contributors. So you could see this feels us to this day.
I love it.
I love that this is rooted in a decade old feud that has now come to a brilliant partnership. Ben, do you want to tell us a little bit more about yourself besides that you feuded with Matt initially?
Feuded is the wrong word, culminate is the right word.
Lost is the right word.
So I'm Ben Parr, by the way, my original came to fame is that I was the co-editor and editor at large of Mashable, the technology dues website. I ran the West coast of Mashable when I was like 23 and I wrote 2,446 articles in my three and a half years there, ran the West coast team, opened the West Coast office, had a team of 50. Eventually I left, I did some investing. I did a column for CBS and CNET, and I wrote a book called Captivology for Harper Collins afterwards on the science and psychology of attention, why we pay attention to certain people and products and how to utilize that science to captivate the attention of others.
You can get it in Amazon or anywhere else. It's filled with interviews with the world's top PhDs and attention and memory, as well as like Sheryl Sandberg, Steven Soderbergh, David Copperfield, these masters of attention who I interviewed to understand the fundamentals of attention.
And I went touring and speaking, joined a couple of boards. I sat on the board of the Leila Janah Foundation. We are trying to give work instead of aid to help people in impoverished regions rise up and have a better life. And in 2016, Matt, as he would say is like, tricked me into joining and starting Octane AI with him in our third co-founder Leaf.
I wouldn't say tricked. I said, Ben, I have a great idea. You're not allowed to work on it.
So I love your genesis story. I'm so excited about it actually, because I too have known my business partner for well over a decade, although we did start as friends, but that's because he slept on my floor when he was touring in a band. So I love an old friendship or relationship that becomes a business partnership.
There's something I'm just like missing out of that. However, for some unknown reason over the past week, twice, I have been called the co-founder of my own company. And I'm trying to figure out who my co-founder is because apparently it's not just me.
We're going to take this moment to finally sit you down and explain that you actually have a split personality and we've communicated with both of them. And so I think that's what's going on.
Okay. But which one's better?
Good answer. Okay. So we've talked about both of you, tell us about Octane AI.
Yeah. So octane AI, we started the company in 2016 and it's transitioned quite a lot. I think we are like any startup, we're constantly making it better. We're constantly learning new things. I think that the vision that we're kind of focused on now is much more expanded than what we imagined it was going to be in the beginning. So in the very beginning, it's 2016, in 2015 I visited China with my fiance and her family. And I got to see firsthand how people were using WeChat in China. And the crazy thing about WeChat is you did everything with WeChat. That was how you communicated with every type of business that you wanted to kind of interact with. You could order a cab, you could pay for food. You could get like alerts from a business on WeChat. And in the United States, there wasn't really anything like this that was happening.
And so in early 2016 after I'd had this experience, Facebook announced at F8 at their developers conference that you could now build bots and automation directly into Facebook Messenger. And I think that was the moment where I was like, okay, all this stuff that I saw happening in China, Facebook just released something that would allow us to recreate these types of experiences for the rest of the world. And so got Ben together, told him he couldn't work on this. And of course that's how you get Ben to get excited about something. It needs it to happen. And then also brought on our third co-founder Leaf who previously he had made Omegle, which is a whole nother story. One of the largest chat websites in the world. If you've been on it, then you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't then go have fun.
And we kind of came together to create Octane as a place where any business could create automation and talk to their customers over Facebook Messenger. And we didn't have any idea of what specific vertical it was going to be. It was just like, hey, probably makes sense that the same way you email your customers and you use automation that you should do the same thing with Facebook Messenger. We raised some money. We started building and very quickly we realized that when you are not focused on a specific vertical, everybody from all the different types of industries are asking you for all sorts of different types of things.
And so the product doesn't necessarily become one cohesive thing. You're pulled in a lot of directions. And so we evaluated what could we focus on, what industry use case could we focus on where we could have the most impact and that ended up being eCommerce, and that ended up being Shopify. And so in 2018, we launched our Shopify app and this also coincided with Facebook Messenger, turning off the Facebook Messenger platform because of Cambridge Analytica for a month and the company almost died.
And we just had a Forbes article come out that goes into that in detail. And it involved Ben and I lain on the ground thinking that our lives were over. But Facebook turned everything back on, the app started taking off. And basically the way it worked is Shopify stores, you click a button and they could connect their store to Octane, and we would track what their customers did. And then if there was an abandoned cart or browser abandonment or an order receipt, we could trigger all those messages over Facebook Messenger directly to the customer and increase revenue by a lot.
I think since 2018, we've learned that conversation and being able to talk to your customers at scale in a marketing capacity is really, really powerful. And we've grown quite a lot. We work with thousands of Shopify brands and our most recent product that we've come out with takes us outside of Facebook Messenger. And that's this Shoppable Quiz which we're really excited about, we've worked on for over a year. And it takes all of the learnings that we've kind of come up with from learning how to automate conversations with customers on behalf of the stores and takes that from Facebook Messenger and puts it on the store itself.
I luckily got a sneak preview at this early on when you guys were developing it. And I've been so excited for this to launch because as a developer building any kind of quiz has been one of the most painful experiences to the point where I just tell merchants, it's not going to work out, not the way you envision it. And so this Shoppable Quizzes actually are a game changer for Shopify merchants. I'm very excited about it.
We talked with so many of our customers and not our customers and other Shopify merchants and plus merchants about the whole experience. And they told us it was super painful to build quizzes, but also even when you build something, customer use something like Typeform, then there's almost nothing you can really do with all of that knowledge and data that you have accumulated all that contact information. Or if you do, you have to like jerry-rigged. We've had people who've completely jerry-rigged foreign builders to do things that they were never meant to do. And they don't do them very well, like Typeforms and example of that. And it doesn't even look like the site either. You could tell, oh, it's a Typeform. Whereas with the Shoppable Quiz, it like looks and feels like the website.
So we're going to have a whole bunch of examples, but we were talking before the podcast recording about rooted.nyc where you could see they did all this themselves using just our tool. And it just looks like this website, it's beautiful. It makes you really want to buy some plants. So go buy some plants everyone. It's also the afterwards I think is really important.
Now, you've built a buyer profile of this customer. Do you understand what they're actually looking for? Now, that level of personalization can deeper. You can add them to like an Octane AI list and like send a more targeted follow up. You can go and transfer that email to something like Klaviyo and send a more personalized message. And this is just the beginning of that piece. There's just so many interesting things you can do. But the first step is like, you gotta actually like give that customers that experience, learn more about them so that you can personalize.
So at a high level overview, what is the Shoppable Quiz?
Yeah. So the Shoppable Quiz... Okay, if you had like a retail location, let's say you were selling beauty products, you have a physical store. And let's say that I walk in that store and let's say that I've never bought beauty products before, but I'm like, okay, I should totally take care of my skin. I should probably go buy some skincare products. I'm going to go to the store. I have money. Let's do this. I walk into the store and I immediately I'm like, "Holy crap." I have no idea what to buy. My skin, maybe it's like oily, or maybe I'm breaking out or whatever it is. I don't want to buy the wrong product because I'm worried that if I get the wrong thing my skin's going to have a negative reaction. And so I'm freaking out, I don't know what to do.
In a store somebody who works there can come up to me and they can ask me, they can say, "Hey, what are you looking for? Calm down. It's okay." I can tell them about it. They can say what kind of concerns do you have with your skin? What have you tried in the past? Or what are you trying to do with this? And I can answer these questions and then they can take me directly to the aisles and they can help me put together a perfect bundle of products, basically help me build a routine that's perfect for me. And I can feel really confident that even though when I walked in this door I had no idea what I should get this expert has asked me questions, gotten to know me and has now personalized a bundle for me.
And I can feel really confident that I can go buy it and I can start with my skincare routine and I'm really happy. So that's like a really good experience. Online though there's nobody there when you load up a skincare website or any plant website or any sort of Shopify store, there's nobody there that's like walking up to you when you're freaking out and not sure what to do. There's nobody there like helping you figure out what you should get and personalize it. And so what the Shoppable Quiz is, is it's a tool on Octane that lets you as the merchant create that perfect conversation that an expert in a store would have with a customer who walked in, who wasn't sure what they were going to get. You can ask any of the important questions that are key for your brand.
So like for skincare, it's like, what's your age? What's your skin concern? What are you worried about? And then you can take that logic and match that customer up with a personalized products or bundle or selection of products. And you can tell them exactly why those products are right for them. And they can purchase it right there from the results. It doesn't have to get emailed to them. They don't have to go somewhere else. They just answer the questions, the experience is right on the website, feels really beautiful and they're presented with those results and they can purchase them. And then what Octane AI does is it takes this whole experience to an even higher level where every single thing that happens during the quiz is tracked. So how long do people spend on each answer? What did you Kelly specifically answer and the combination of your answers?
What buyer persona does that match you up with? We could collect email and sync that to klaviyo, and sync all this information to klaviyo. We can fire off Facebook pixel events when you're answering questions. So even if you don't answer all the questions in the quiz, you can still be building audiences on Facebook that you can re-target based on some of the data. And it shows you how much revenue was generated. So it's the most amazing onboarding experience that you could provide for your customers. And then the data can be linked to all channels where you do remarketing.
I'll add to that, which is there's I feel like three main experiences for shopping in a store. It has eyebrows for something like I'm no, I need dresses, but I'm just going to look through a mall.
I'm searching for something I know I'm looking for a specific thing. I'm just going for it. And then there's the consultative experience, which is like, the associate, the concierge really critical part. And two of those experiences are really nailed in eCommerce and one has never been nailed at all, which is the consultative piece. And that's what the quiz really is. It is that consultative piece. And it doesn't matter whether you have 8,000 skews where you should definitely have a quiz, or if you have one, because like even a store, which has one product, they need people there to explain the benefits, talk through what your specific problems of. We love teeth whitener is an example I always love to use, which is, okay, just one product, but I may need to know, do you drink coffee or do you smoke? Because based on that, I will have a different kind of pitch to you in a different kind of personalization based on that information and make it much more likely that you will buy and you will continue to buy and make you feel more comfortable with the purchase.
I love the idea of building buyer personas in particular, because I feel like merchants tend to think they know who their customer is without actually interviewing the customers. And by adding this quiz to your store, you're basically doing those customer interviews by asking the questions you need to know to build out those buyer personas. And suddenly you can learn who your customers actually are versus who you thought they were.
Oh yeah. That's absolutely true, and I think like what's crazy is that when you first were like, "Oh, okay, I'm going to do a quiz. What questions should I put?" It's like a self-discovery is like a merchant to figure out like, what the heck questions are you going to put in your quiz. And the first time anyone tries to do this, they're like, okay, I'm going to ask questions that specifically helped me figure out what I should recommend to you. And those are like very technical, very specific, very professionally geared questions. But then once you get those laid out, then you're like, wait, I could also ask questions that have nothing to do with the results, but just help me identify who customers are, like dough lashes, they're a great brand that uses Octane AI for their quiz to help you find the perfect kind of fake lash for you.
One of the questions that they have is like, "Oh, have you ever used lashes before? This is your first time with this?" And they kind of put it in there and it wasn't a big deal. They just thought it made sense to put it in there. But when people took the quiz, it turned out that 50% of people had actually never used lashes before. And they were like, "Oh shoot, we didn't actually even knew this. We should go create an educational campaign on Klaviyo that sends follow up emails to people, explaining them and educating to them, "Oh, here's what lashes are. And here's how you should use them." And that was something that they had no idea of. Or you have BeautyBio which is a Shopify Plus brand that uses Octane AI for their quiz.
They sort customers into different buyer personas and they're based on skin type and age and in a bunch of different factors. And they were actually able to discover that some of their buyer personas that they hadn't even been paying that much attention to you actually have much higher AOVs, much higher average order values. And now what they can do is go re-market to those people on Facebook, go create a lookalike audience, go find more people who are also going to match that buyer persona, and they can start to use this intelligence to kind of feed their new marketing initiatives. I think that's really cool.
I'm so enamored with the magic of this product. I think in part because I used to work in retail in brick and mortar retail during when I was a university student and-
Are you okay.
Yeah, I'm good. But there's something Ben, it's what you said. It was that missing third piece that couldn't be replicated in eCommerce. And both of you all touched on that lack of the person walking you down the aisle and really picking out. And I actually worked for Aveda so I worked in skin and haircare. So it's like, oh, well, I actually got to if someone wanted, what shampoo should I use this? I just be able to touch their hair. You can't touch someone's hair on the internet and I could touch their skin. And I think you've really solved this challenge that has been played... I've finished off my partner for seven years. This has been plaguing us for seven years. And it's so nice to see it solved and beautifully solved as well.
I think what's important to note here is we didn't invent the concept of a quiz being on an online store, right. That was something that we were already seen other great brands doing this. I think you see brands come out with a lot of funding and specifically within any sort of health-related area or skincare related area. They'll often lead with the quiz being the main differentiator that they're using data science to match you up with the exact product. But the companies that always were doing this were very, very, very well-funded. Maybe not even profitable, they just had lots of VC dollars that they could use to hire actual internal development teams to put this together. But for everybody else, the other 99% they either have to hire an agency to go create a quiz or they have to use something Typeform, which Ben was talking about.
Typeform is great. It's a great product, but you can spot it a mile away. It's just not exactly what you want to use if you're really caring about your brand and integrating with eCommerce. So I think what surprised us this is when we went and talked to existing large brands that had quizzes and they looked really nice and we thought that everything was going to be buttoned up in the background. And we were going to learn a lot about how we should build our tool. We were like, "Hey, how's your quiz? How's it working? What kind of data do you get?" They're like, "Data." "Dashboard" "What are you talking about?"
They're like, "We didn't do quiz."
They're like, "It looks good. Right?" We're like, "Yeah, it looks good." But they had nothing. That data was just like they knew that the quiz was helpful.
They knew that it was helping customers. They knew people were buying things, but there was no dashboard to go log into. The data is not getting synced with any of their other apps. If they ever want to update anything, including product images or price or title, they've got to go reach out to the agency to have the custom development. And like, it's just like a never ending thing. And it's probably not fun for the agency to keep updating that either. And so I think we were really surprised that even the brands that had really good looking quizzes which is not very many of them, they really weren't even tapping in to the biggest advantage of this. And so we thought, hey, it seems like every brand, the same way you're going to have a retail store and you want someone to work there so they can help people.
It seems every online brand should have an onboarding quiz, should have maybe a post-purchase quiz. It's not even a quiz at that point. It's just you should talk to customers when you're at the store and you should give them a personalized experience. And we thought that was something that every brand should have. And it shouldn't require that you have like 100 million dollars of VC money in the bank and do custom development. And you shouldn't have to work with an agency who probably gets annoyed with you over time and you don't have a dashboard.
We should just make it as easy as setting up a Shopify store. You should just be able to log in. Don't do any code, drag and drop stuff, customize it, make it look like your site, set up some logic and then bam, all this data's coming through, you're building buyer profiles and you're identifying buyer personas. And then you're sinking it with all your marketing so that everything is personalized based on what you're actually learning from the customer not what you're trying to guess about the customer.
Matt added a piece or just one other interesting thing is the quiz. It's almost a limiting term in some ways, because you can do a lot with it for a lot of the brands it's the actual onboarding experience. We've had a couple of our brands already super early on, already use it in ways we didn't expect.
Skinny Mixes for example use it as a recipe recommender. So they recommend recipes, but they also use the quiz product to make a dynamic onsite opt-in tool. We were like, you want to get your discount over Messenger, over SMS, over email because we collect all those and they use it as a dynamic opt-in, but that's scratching the surface of what you can do with it. You could imagine a ton of potential use cases. And we'll be talking more about those I think in the next couple of months as more brands just start playing around with it. It's a creative tool and it's also just a straight up money printing tool because your customers, we have just been finding over and over again. The would just spend more money if they have a quiz and they're just more likely to purchase if they have that experience.
I have a follow-up question for that. Do you have information that you can share in regards to the impact of having a quiz and the conversion that happens as a result of the quiz? I understand that there's a lot of dimensions to the quiz and it's more than just a quiz, but do you have any conversion data you can share?
Yeah. So Ben, you want to talk about BeautyBio?
Yeah. So we actually just released a case study with BeautyBio and they actually drove 28% increases in average order value using the Shoppable Quiz. What happened generally was 75% of people who ever saw the quiz would start the quiz. Just saw that it was a thing. And people who started a quiz, 7.7% of those people converted into a purchase as a result of the quiz. And 65% of those people completed it, which just the end result was like, man, it's a lot more revenue than there was before. In addition to the data. So they-
Well, I think that's something that I want to point out too is I think that you're never going to have 100% of people finish a quiz. It's just not going to happen. And every other person we ever talked to you who was doing anything with quizzes, the only thing they were focused on was customers who finished the quiz.
And so we thought if you know that we live in a world where 100% of people are never going to finish the quiz, then it seems if we're going to ignore all those people that don't finish the quiz, there's a huge amount of data that isn't getting used at all. And so that's also why we built in the Facebook pixel tracker. And that's also we have a feature where if you take half the quiz and you don't submit contact information, but then you get one of our exit intents before you're about to leave. And then you submit contact information, we're actually still going to sync all of that data that you gave from half of the quiz and sync that to Octane. So I think that's also a really crazy part of it is the data, not just from people who completed it, but from the data that people who didn't complete it.
We also have Bariatric Fusion, which sells supplements. And previously they had email collection were pretty standard, get a discount, you put your email in and that's kind of the data that's getting collected. And then now they have a quiz which asks you questions, figures out for them it's what surgery have you recently had? Do you like chewable or do you want to swallow the pills? And what are your favorite flavors? And it kind of builds a bundle for you. And that's a lot of information. And then it's also collecting email for a discount. And so not only were they able to get all of this additional data when collecting an email when before it was just the email and they can use this to do segmentation on Klaviyo and do retargeting on Facebook and also figure out future park developments.
But they were able to 15X the amount of emails that they were collecting. So it's not just that they 15X the emails it's that they got this mountain of data that's also coming with that. And we see that with DOE lashes. There was a 4Xed their email sign up and just a couple of days. And it seems very consistent that if you put this sort of onboarding experience, you're going to be able to get more emails or phone numbers or messenger opt-ins, you're going to get more data and you're going to increase your average order value. I think that's just like the... Go ahead Ben.
I'll add to that Bariatric Fusion one, they found that over 15% of people who ended up the results page ended up purchasing, which is a crazy conversion stuff. So just think about what the average conversion rate of an eCommerce websites were, one to two percent-ish right. Even just a small increase, if you add another percentage point is a dramatic increase in your bottom line overall. And what the quiz does is just dramatically increased conversion rates for the people go through that funnel. For some of the brands it is their homepage now, for others they're running tons of ads that go right to that quiz because they know that that's the highest converting page on their site.
And it's also important to note in the case of bariatric fusion they 15Xed their mailing list, but they're qualified, they're good quality customers as opposed to, let's say a Spin the Wheel pop up, which I love just hating on all the time. These are highly qualified leads essentially with potential customers for you. So that's a powerful statistic right there.
Right. But also I would say that the Spin the Wheel that's like... I'm sure we all have opinions on Spin the Wheel, but Spin the Wheel that's like when you walk up to a carnival, you're walking down a fare and then someone's like, "Hey, you want to spin this wheel over here." And there's a certain type of experience you walk away from when you have that.
Whereas I think what's interesting about the quiz is it's actually what it is doing is it's the brand having a conversation with the customer and that is forming a relationship. And then that relationship is not disappearing the moment the website is closed, is being maintained in the context of that relationship is being included in the advertising and the text messages afterwards and the emails, and even what they're seeing on the website later. I think that that's why we're so excited about the quiz. And I think that's why we also believe that it's such a huge leap that we came out with this and now everybody can make these Shoppable Quizzes, but we're also still at the very, very, very early days of trying to incorporate the idea of real relationships into online shopping.
I love that. Okay. So I'm going to ask one final question about the quiz, but it's a lengthy answer. Can you walk us through the quiz creation process?
Yeah. Okay. So here's the thing with the quiz. There's two things if you're a merchant or an agency, or you're thinking about setting up a quiz for someone there's kind of two things you need to tackle. One is obviously the actual implementation of it and the building of it and using Octane AI to put that together and sync it up with everything. That's one part, which is actually really straightforward. And then the second part which I would recommend you have to do this part first is the conceptualization of what is that quiz going to look like? And so what will you kind of recommend to brands is first, you need to think, okay, if someone walks up to you and you might already be doing this in retail location, or maybe on customer support chat or something. But if somebody walked up to you and they're like, "Hey I need help finding something." What are the questions that you would ask that person?
And so go make a list of what those questions are. And then also once you've asked them those questions, how are you going to recommend the product to them? Because this is different from brand to brand. If you're a mattress company, I'm not going to be. "Hey, okay thanks for answering my questions, here's a million mattresses." I'm probably going to be like, "Okay, I think you're really going to love this mattress specifically. And by the way, you also might these pillows and these blankets." Whereas if you're a jewellery company, or maybe a wine company, you're going to ask a bunch of questions. Maybe it's more preference based and personality based. And you're probably going to provide not like, "Hey, this is the exact necklace you should get." But you're probably going to be like, "Hey, I think here's a selection of necklaces or bracelets that I think are good for you, or a selection of wine that I think matches your preference. So feel free to pick and choose which one you want."
And then the third option, which is really popular and highly recommended within anything related to care. So skincare, healthcare or beauty is that bundle maker, that routine builder. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and then I'm going to personalize a bundle or routine just for you. And I'm going to say, okay, you should use this first and then this, and then this, and you should buy these together. It's not a selection of things to choose from. I'm actually recommending you get these altogether and maybe there's a discount for doing that. So that's the first thing that as a brand you need to figure out, what are the questions if I could ask everybody a set number of questions when they come in, what are those?
And then how do I want to recommend the product? Is it one hero product? Is it a selection of products or is it a personalized bundle? And then the way that Octane AI Shoppable Quiz builder works is that you get to go in there. It feels very, very inspired by the Shopify theme designer. So it's very, very familiar if you're used to customizing a Shopify theme from their theme designer. Everything's drag and drop. There's no code, it's wiziwig. You just type it out and you see it. The first thing you do is you input your questions. And so you can create a section for each question. You can write out what the answers are. And then the answers can either be text or you can put in images or they can be images and texts, or you can use gifts.
And then you can have sections in between the questions where maybe it's like we call them explainer screens. Maybe it's, "Oh thanks for answering that question." Or, "Oh that totally makes sense, let me ask you something else." That's kind of that pause in between. It's almost you're appreciating that they just answered a question and now you're going to go to the next question. And then you can also select what opt-in or what kind of contact information do you want to collect, do want to ask for email or Facebook Messenger or phone number. And you can customize, maybe you want to offer a discount where there's a free download or you want a text to get sent to them immediately after, that's really easy to just build in right there.
And you can also use rules when you're designing this. So if you want different people to see different questions or based on previous answers to questions, you want to show different options for answers at a later stage, you can actually customize that completely. So the quiz can be really straightforward or really personalized even when you're asking the questions. So maybe if you ask somebody if they had a really... Maybe if you were, "Oh skinny mixes sells zero calorie syrups to flavor your drinks." And so if you ask, "Oh what kind of flavors are you interested in?" You said coffee, and there's this recipe finder, maybe the next question you want to ask, because they said coffee is, "Oh, well, do you want hot coffee? Or do you want ice coffee?"
And then based on that answer, you can now recommend them, here's the ice coffee recipes. So it's super, super flexible, but it requires no code. Once you've created those questions, you then move on to creating the results pages. And a results page also has rules. And so you can use a combination of their answers to the questions to basically identify their buyer persona and then match them up with the results page that is best for them. And the best way to think about a results page is it's almost like a dynamically created landing page that you're going to send somebody to after they answer the questions. And a results page is composed of, we call them product blocks. So there are different sections of the pages. And then inside products blocks, you can pull products directly from your Shopify store or pull in entire collections.
You can put custom texts or custom images and on the product blocks the same way that you can use rules to determine which results page someone sees, you can also show in hide sections of that results page with rules. And so maybe if I'm taking a quiz and I say that I'm a man, maybe there's a section at the bottom that's like, because you're a man you're also going to like these products. And it's showing that to me, because I'm a man, but if someone else took it and they said that they're a women, it would not show the man section, it would show the women's section. And so there's a way to dynamically change what you see on the results and you can apply those rules to entire sections of the results page individual components. So texts and images, and then also individual products.
So similar to the questions and the answers you can use lots of logic to dynamically create a completely personalized results page with a combination of text, images, gifts, products, collections, anything you want. And it does it all automatically. And then it saves that data and then it syncs it everywhere. And so then when you want to install this, we basically just give you some embed code and you would go put that on one of your Shopify pages. And then you could link to that page. A lot of brands link to it from the kind of the hero section on their homepage or from the navbar, or from maybe the footer, the product page, you can drive ads to it. Driving ads to a quiz is one of the most amazing things ever because you get all this great information from them and then you can also promote it in emails.
And I think that that's a journey that I made as a test of the product to make sure that we did it right. I built a bunch of quizzes for a bunch of brands that we work with so that I could make sure that this was actually living up to what we wanted to be in. I actually have created over 20 of these quizzes with big Shopify brands, Shopify Plus brands. And I did that in less than 45 days. So it sounds a lot, but once you get it up and running and you don't really have to do much, and they all have the quizzes that I worked on are just printing money and collecting data and kind of enriching this overall experience.
And what I'm excited to see is you can make an onboarding quiz, but there's an infinite number of things you can do at this because on its own it's just a dynamic experience that can ask questions and then can dynamically show you a combination of things that's personalized to you. And you could use that in so many... You can make a game, you can make a post-purchase quiz. You can make a holiday guide, you can make a recipe finder. Same way there's an infinite amount of things you can do with the website, I think there's an infinite amount of things you can do with this tool. And I think we've only scratched the surface of what's possible.
Well, I feel like this is a win, win, win for so many merchants. And I'm so excited that you all were on the podcast today to talk about this because I just sense there's endless opportunity with what you've developed. At the end of each of our episodes, we always do some store shout outs, and I would love for you to both shout out some stores that you love that also have a quiz on it.
Yeah. So I'll start and then Ben you give your recommendation. I have to recommend the Rooted, rooted.nyc. It's an online plant store based in obviously New York City. And when you go to rooted.nyc you're going to see a prompt in their nav and right upfront in the hero section to take their quiz. And they use Octane AI to build it. And it is the most beautiful quiz I've seen. And I feel like I tell people every day about this quiz, because I'm just so blown away by their creativity and by the aesthetics and the feeling of it. And I just I feel this quiz makes me emotional. It's too good. It's too amazing. So my shout out goes to rooted.nyc, go take their quiz. Be careful because they're probably going to sell you at least one plant.
Yeah, I'm on the checkout. The end of that quiz because we talked about it right before the pod started and you know I'm going to be buying many a plant after we get off of this recording.
Nothing wrong with that.
Yes you are.
If you all want more quizzes to take and more things to buy-
... I have a couple. So Spongellé, if you want to feel really, really clean, they have a fragrance quiz for figuring out the right fragrance. And it has my favorite loader, which is all their different products, just flashing ground in a circle as they load up.
Mastin Labs is also they have a preset quiz. So Mastin Labs if you're into photography, they have preset packs. It's something every photographer should have, but you go through and you look at the thing and it's just beautiful photography as part of their quiz. It's a super detailed quiz. It asks a lot of questions, but the end result is something super, super personalized. And I think that's really important for photographers. And then of course we have mentioned before, Doe Lashes, Eyelashes, you're looking for that. Doe Lashes is just an awesome brand. So it's three different things depending on what you're looking for.
I'm always looking for everything so that's... Well, my store shout out for this week is Misen, M-I-S-E-N.co. And A, full disclosure I just bought a knife from them. It's the sharpest knife I've ever owned in my life. And I'm afraid someone's going to cut off their finger in my kitchen.
Two, I also just bought a nonstick pan from them, a nonstick pan from them. And I'm really loving it. But beyond that, I really love their store. If you go to it, it's really obvious what they're selling right away, which to me is super crucial. They call it out affordable luxury meets kitchen essential, boom. I know what they're selling. I'm digging it. Their assets are clean. Their navigation is on point. And I also love the product. Kelly, what about you?
So my store this week is called Something Navy. And the reason why I'm shouting this store out is because I've been spending the last two weeks building out a headless store. So I've been using the cell as the backend. And well, it's a Shopify store using the cell connecting the data to a view JS storefront. Developer talk. So Something Navy is using the same structure and headless builders it's just so cool to me because they're super-fast and they're progressive web apps and it's just a fun store to kind of... It's beautiful and it's very easy to navigate. So that is somethingnavy.com.
Fun fact if you're using the cell the Shoppable Quiz works perfectly within the cell so.
Yes, I'm glad to hear that.
I love that. Okay. Last question, super important. Where can we find you on the internet? Ben, you go first.
I can't make up things. So Octane AI first, octaneai.com. And so not octane.ai, although that will also take you to the website.
Octaneai.co/quiz if you want to request early access to the private beta for the quiz, we know all the fun things. And then for myself @B-E-N-P-A-R-R, Ben Parr on literally every social network, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, whichever you want, it'll be the same thing everywhere.
I love the consistency there.
It's so easy, I love that.
Matt, what about you?
Yeah, so probably Twitter. Twitter is the best for me. So I'm just @MattPRD, M-A-T-T-P-R-D for anybody who's like why the heck is it say PRD? Well, I created my Twitter account when I moved to Silicon Valley, which was way back when Twitter was first starting and I was a product manager and PRD stands for product requirements document. And so I am Matt PRD, product requirements document which is-
I was actually going to ask you, so I'm glad you waded.
I have to also shout out Matt's TikTok since he has 800,000 followers on TikTok.
What's your TikTok? What's the email?
So when I signed up for TikTok there was just so many people that I literally sat there for half... I was I'm going to choose a good name. And I was like what is the name I'm going to choose? And then I thought of something. I put it in and was like you don't have this. And then I increasingly got more desperate, because everything I typed in and I was just trying ridiculous things, nothing worked. And so the only thing that I ended up finding that actually got through which rhymed was MattCatBat. So you can find me on TikTok @MatCatBat.
And I mostly do little drawings and my most recent video, I actually posted one last night as I started making them, I had these bunch of extra Post-it Note things. And I was like I hate these Post-it Note things because I prefer whiteboards. But what if I did a little foot book? And so my last video, which I think just hit 50,000 views is me, I drew my little character who I call Matt Cat Bat, who looks exactly like me is doing one of the most popular trending dances right now in a foot book format.
I love that, which dance is that?
Which dance is it? I can play the music and you can hear it. Let's see I don't know if anybody is on TikTok you can know what... This is it. So you can look up MattCatBat and you can see this dance. Doing pretty good. I ordered last night, I was so pumped. I was like, "Oh, I made this flip book. This is cool." Ben was like, "What'd you do last time?" I was like, "I spent 40 minutes drawing a flip book in this thing." I'm moving on from Post-it Notes now. I think I'm going to go into this as a trend. I ordered eight blank official professional foot books, so-
Check it out.
I live it, I thought you were going to say that you just ordered a bunch of more Post-it Notes just to go full circle.
No, got love the look.
No, no. What Matt's going to eventually do is he's going to order 80 whiteboards and he's going to turn it into a giant life-size foot book. And if we're going to have to get a Ferris Wheel to do it.
I expect to see that.
I have 12 whiteboards in my room right now. So I think I'm pretty close to that.
Wow. I have zero.
I have one.
I have [crosstalk 01:01:37].
Well, if you want an extra one I can send you one. Here, because there's such a wide selection of whiteboards here in my office I will make a store and I will make the quiz because some of them have, it depends on if you want some that have old smudges on them or not. So I know that's a personal preference, so I can make a quiz to figure that out automatically and you can order one.
All right. I'm going to stand by for that quiz. I love it.
All right, Matt, Ben, thank you both so much for joining us today. I, again, I'm a huge fan of the Shoppable Quiz and I hope the merchants listening in, even the agencies listening in are like, "Hey, we should do this." And so we start seeing more quizzes of out in the Shopify space. So again, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks you, all.
Thank you for having us.
I'll start how we end it.
Thanks for tuning in and thanks again to our sponsors for supporting this episode. You can subscribe to Commerce Tea on your favorite podcasting service. We post new episodes every Tuesday, so grab your mug and join us, see you next week.
Clockedin is a time clock for Shopify. With Clockedin your team members can easily clock in and out of their shifts from anywhere. You can manage your team's hours as they work remotely with an intuitive interface that can be used from desktop tablet or mobile. Check it out at clockedin.io or in the Shopify App Store.